Hmm, I don’t know what a “build the wall then break the dam,” would look like, but I took a look at that Lowbacca deck and you’re thinking of something like this right?
Treebeard: 18 HP, Blue Deck
2x Ents: 5 HP, Minor Orange+ Deck
3x Nasty Little Orc
A4*: If Treebeard did not move using the move die this turn, then this card’s value is 8 instead of 4.
3x ????
2x Boulder Toss
THROW BOULDER does 2 damage to a character Treebeard could attack at range. That character may not move on their controller’s next turn.
2x Furious Kick
A6: [same effect]
1x Entmoot
Draw 4 cards. For every space Treebeard has moved this turn, draw 1 less card.
1x Release the River!
Treebeard may not move until this effect resolves. At the beginning of your next turn, all characters in a straight line away from Treebeard receive 4 damage.
Any thoughts on this Treebeard deck? It’s kind of fun even if it lacks a strong deck theme.
Note that I’ve udpated Elrond to have more of an “action manipulation” theme. I haven’t tested that deck out and it looks very strong, but otherwise I’m happy with where it is landing. As for Isildur, I wouldn’t mind seeing better ideas, but his is a working deck as well. I’m satisfied with all 3 bad guy decks.
So once we finish this Treebeard deck, we’ve got a 6-set expansion, bringing this LOTRED set to 32 total decks. That’s a good number that allows for endless possible matches.
I’m pretty much on the same page as you. My only minor problems with this deck is it has a few “unfair” combos and cards. Like THERMAL DETONATOR is a pretty good card and it will be even more so in LOTRED and this deck has a card like BROKEN DAM to set it up; meaning Treebeard can inflict 6 damage to most (if not all) enemies and because of the high move of BD can avoid hurting his teammate.
I might suggest at least reducing the move on BD and maybe lowering BOULDER TOSS to 3 damage.
It’s also pretty easy to draw 5 cards with ENTMOOT unless you draw it late in the game. Maybe change it so Treebeard only gets one extra draw if at least one Ent is adjacent? That makes it pretty similar to a card Gothmog has.
Finally, I could complain about how GOING TO WAR is too similar to Isildur’s card and not very original (although the name is great), but it’s not a huge deal to me.
I dunno, this deck is fun but not very interesting. It’s an old school deck in that the cards work and use quotes and do what we expect Ents to do, but there’s no real deck theme here.
I’m thinking about some kind of “move and root” concept, or maybe a “build a wall then break the dam” concept. Lowbacca’s MIGHTY SWING card, that does more damage if you don’t move, might work here.
Hello !
There are small problems with Eomer and Frodo/Sam’s links. Frodo’s first and fourth link all link to his major Talent Cards, and the card backs are unavailable. As for Eomer, it’s his second and third links which both lead to his Major basic cards. Minors’ basic cards are unavailable as well…
That said, everything else is tip-top, and I can’t thank you all enough for making all this nice material so easy to access !
Excellent archive work.
Hi and thanks for your interest, for pointing out those errors and for the kind words. Everything has been updated with the correct files, happy printing and happy dueling!
Ran a couple of play tests of Sauron + Balrog. The first game, they defeated Isildur and Elrond, the second they defeated Isildur and Aragorn. Isildur didn’t draw much defense either game, and went down without doing much either time. This left too many HP for Elrond or Aragorn to dispense with on their own. Aragorn would have won the second game had the SHARDS OF NARSIL REFORGED been played early but it was the last card in the draw pile and Arwen had already been defeated.
Sauron is quite tough but I’m not a fan of cards like WILL TO DOMINATE, like we’ve talked about. A simple offense card like A4 no action or perhaps direct damage would round his deck out. It’s not like he needs more strength, he’s tough to bring down and the LOTR + DARK MACE combo is very effective so A4-no action might be too good. He does need something else though, he really just stands around waiting to draw DARK MACE.
The Balrog looks better with weak basic melee cards replacing FLAMES and 22 HP. He’s still a tough SOB but not so unbeatable. I think he’s looking pretty good. FIRE WHIP doesn’t really fit the deck but the card represents the whip from the movie pretty well.
Isildur is pretty good but he doesn’t look overpowered. He really doesn’t have great offense unless there are conditions in his favor. If you were to kill all his allies and isolate him, he really don’t have much to beat you with, well I guess except an A8 and an A12 which is actually quite a lot.
Even though I haven’t seen him lately, I was thinking about EYE OF SAURON and really, his ONLY DEATH card that skips a turn isn’t that great. You use one action and one card to deny your opponent 2 actions. It’s ok but nothing game changing like YOU WILL DIE. Maybe we can replace NO LIFE IN THE VOID and ONLY DEATH with some cards that give him more offense should the Mouth go out early. NLITV is actually an offense card but he might need more of a killing card, maybe A6-attack-from-anywhere or something.
So I’d like to come up with another card for Sauron, maybe tweak the Eye and potentially come up with something different for Isildur, but otherwise I think all of this is coming together pretty well. You could play any of these 5 decks right now and have fun. We mostly just need to finish out Treebeard.
Sauron: maybe give him a card that helps him get to his DARK MACE? Like 2x MALICE AND HATE: A5 For every point of damage done by this card, draw a card up to 3.
Balrog: glad to hear that the weak melee deck is working out.
Isildur: I agree he’s pretty good, but I unfortunately don’t have any ideas for this deck.
Eye of Sauron: ONLY DEATH has its uses, but he does need something more, like that A6 you’re talking about. But, why stop at A6? Make it A7 or more if you really want him to be good.
I’ve been meaning to make a testing version for Treebeard and take him for a spin. When I last saw him (a while ago) he seemed fine and his power level was about less than the other decks in this expansion, but better than all the other LOTRED decks.
I feel like this is the neglected child of the expansion. 😛
My take is it reminds me a lot of your Obi and Ani deck; as in it’s a deck that doesn’t do much it just beats you ’cause it’s so tough. Isildur has an A8 plus two A6s that are easy to power up and if you kill his tough minor (who has big attacks too) then you have to contend with an A12 that Isildur can search or recycle. And if you ignore Elendil to target Isildur then you have some solid staying power to get over. Their only real weakness is no direct damage, which they don’t really need.
If Elrond and The Balrog weren’t so tough (and if Sauron wasn’t intentional a bad match-up against them) then this would probably be the strongest deck in the expansion right now.
This duo defeated Sauron in combat, so they should be very strong! That stated, there’s not much going on with this deck besides the BROKEN BLADE card and a “leadership” theme I tried to instill. I kind of like the LEADER OF MEN – STRENGTH OF MANY combo but it might be a little too strong.
Here’s a rough draft I came up with for the Knights (as a 3-character deck).
3x Knights of Ren: 8 HP each, Brown + Weak Melee Decks
3x Hunters
A6: Apply the following based on the number of Knights adjacent to the defender. 1: Move the defender up to 4 spaces. 2: Move all Knights up to 4 spaces each. 3: Both 1 and 2.
3x Martial Prowess
A3: Apply the following based on the number of Knights still in play. 1: Move the attacking Knight up to 6 spaces. 2: The player controlling the defender loses an action next turn. 3: Playing this card does not count as an action.
2x Heavily Armed
Draw 1 card. For every Knight still in play, draw an additional card.
2x Encircle
A5: Apply the following based on the number of Knights adjacent to the defender. 1: Draw a card. 2: Add 2 to this card’s value. 3: Add 4 to this card’s value and draw 2 cards.
1x ???
A10: Apply the following effect based on the number of Knights in play. 1: Discard 2 cards at random. 2: You lose an action on your next turn. 3: Discard a card to draw a card.
1x Reinforcements
If you have 2 Knights in play, place a destroyed Knight adjacent to any other Knight with 4 hit points remaining. If you have 1 Knight in play, place 2 destroyed Knights to any empty spaces with 3 hit points each.
It’s going to be too much of a “strong early, fades late” deck. You kill one Knight and you’ve taken a lot away from them, kill a second Knight and you almost don’t even have to worry about the third.
I would make some cards unreliant upon the number of Knights and therefore dangerous even if there’s only one left. If you look at the Nazgul, DEATH GRIP and BLACK BREATH intentionally don’t care how many Nazgul are on the board.
If you wanna keep “Heavily Armored” the way it is I’d make it 2 cards plus one for each, otherwise its just a really weak gain power, this way it would average at 3 but could sometimes be 4.
All that said that card seems really generic and the kind of thing you really could replace with a card that has nothing to do with the number of knights. Alternatively you could maybe have a card where you get a 2nd reenforcement knight if you’re down to 1 and fulfill some extra condition. This is intentionally comedic but maybe something like
x2 Cry for Help- D0 If this is the last knight remaining, and you survive the attack, put 1 Knight of Ren on the board adjacent to the defender with 3 hit points
Thanks for the suggestions and that’s is a fun card idea, but now that I’ve changed my Praetorian Guard to fill the role of Nazgul-like deck, I’ve gone in a different direction with The Knights. Right now, I’m trying out two 3-personality decks (one melee squad and one ranged squad) of which only the ranged squad uses ideas from my above draft.
Since these aren’t easy decks to get right, I’m letting them both brew for awhile (although the melee squad (Ushar, Trudgeon, and Ap’Lek) is further along).
The only new characters from this movie I could see a deck being made for are The Knights of Ren. I mean, I know in the film they don’t do much, but they look cool and in the EU they all have names and unique specializations. Don’t know if they should be a triple personality deck or 2 two personality deck (although I’m not sure if they are worth making two decks for).
Yeah that’s a good call. I might suggest trying them as a 3-character deck like the Nazgul since we don’t really have one of those in SWED. I suggested that for the Praetorian Guard but I guess they come in pairs so I think the guy went with 2 sets of 2 guards for that one. If there’s nothing like that going on with the Knights of Ren just do 3.
My first suggestion would be to drop FLAMES and replace them (and his A1/D2s) with a Weak Melee deck. Both to reduce his direct damage and because this is a more standard build for a single character deck. My next suggestion would be to switch his blue deck back to red. I would rather do that then lower his HP. Of course, if we do that then we might not need to make any other changes.
BTW, here’s how I see the power levels (roughly):
Sauron
Balrog, Smaug
Gandalf, Saruman, Elrond, Witch-King, Eye of Sauron
Aragorn, Isildur
Treebeard
If we swap out FLAMES for the minor basic deck, that might do the trick. The problem with a red deck is that you know you can just tee off on that character and he won’t be able to stop you, so I’d rather let him keep the blue and drop a couple of HP if we need to.
So I ran the Balrog and Sauron’s Eye against the big boy team of Gandalf and Elrond. To my surprise the bad guys won.
Balrog is really, really tough and probably needs to be toned down. With his FOE BEYOND ANY + FLAMES, he’s just a ticking bomb, a complete and total direct damage wrecking ball. He stepped up and killed Pippin. The good guys retaliated by taking down the Eye without the Eye getting off any specials at all. The Mouth had a lot of defense and got off an A8 but that’s all the Balrog needed. Gandalf didn’t have a great game and the Mouth took a lot of Gandalf and Elrond’s firepower. Elrond still hit Balrog with an A12 and a 4-point WATER HORSES but didn’t find the second one fast enough. Once Balrog started going through his deck a second time he just cycled for A8s and direct damage until he had enough to kill everyone. It was extremely close at the end but the Elves didn’t have enough to finish him off.
Balrog should be at the Smaug level while Sauron the Dark Lord should top them all IMO, but right now Balrog is tops. The FLAMES card might be too much direct damage. Or, he might need fewer than the 24 hit points he had this game, or possibly both.
The problem with CORRUPTION is that the deeper you get into the game, the more likely your opponent’s minors are destroyed and the more likely they have cards to burn in order to avoid the damage. At least the “increasing” version of it alleviates that problem a bit, but he probably doesn’t have enough killing power on his own.
VOLCANIC ERUPTION is his movement card, so I’d be loathe to lose that one, but it could be 2-3 direct damage instead of 2 cards. Still maybe NO LIFE IN THE VOID needs to be an “attack from anywhere” card just to give him enough punch.
Earlier I had a crazy match of Sauron and the Witch-King (team mace) vs. Eye of Sauron and Smaug and I wanted to share a bit of how it went down.
Sauron and Witch-King opened with bad draws, but still scraped together enough offense to kill off the Mouth and leave The Eye in a bad position especially since the Mouth didn’t get off any of his offense.
Smaug’s BURNING BREATHE did nothing against the POWER OF THE RING and NO MAN CAN KILL ME.
Double DARK MACE turned the tide in team mace’s favor in the mid-game.
Without the Mouth all the Eye could do was throw CORRUPTION at his old self with OK effect, but the duel ended with Smaug in the corner getting pounded on by team mace and ultimately falling.
One last note, I had to stop and think for a moment about what happens when ONLY DEATH’s effect meets WILL TO DOMINATE’s effect. I just assumed Sauron doesn’t get the card draw.
– Smaug is awfully strong, but he isn’t good matchup against characters with big power defense like Sauron and WK (or Gandalf). WK isn’t really that great but that was a good matchup for him.
– Sounds like Sauron is the best, but shouldn’t he be?
– I was afraid of CORRUPTION being too much but it’s actually slightly weaker than FORCE LIGHTNING and it doesn’t sound like the Eye is overly strong overall. Seems like the Mouth is such a big key to his game and I intentionally made him a bit easy to kill and that’s how it went. I’m probably ok if he struggles a bit against the other Tier 1 decks or when the Mouth gets KO’d early. How do you like this idea for CORRUPTION? 3 damage or discard 3 cards or a combination, plus one for each CORRUPTION card in your discard pile. It might seem stronger than the previous version but you’d rarely get more than 3 off in a game.
– I agree that ONLY DEATH wipes out the whole turn, including the addition gained by WILL TO DOMINATE. I probably want to change WTD to something a little more traditional anyways, maybe use some of Robert’s ideas or something.
-I’m sure someone would argue that Smaug is more powerful than Sauron, but I ain’t about to touch that discussion with a ten-foot pole. Maybe we can all just agree that those two are the top two most powerful characters. 😛
-I’ve only seen The Eye in one other duel (with Gollum) against a team of Bilbo and Frodo, which is admitted probably a bad match-up. Based on what I’ve seen, The Eye is tough, just not tier 1 tough and it really depends on what he can get out of The Mouth. I think the change to CORRUPTION is a good idea even though The Eye got off all 4 copies in the duel above.
The thing with that deck is it breaks two big rules of deck design. 1) The major needs to have enough killing power to win the game on his own (The Eye doesn’t) and 2) every deck needs 4 or 5 “killing cards”; The Eye has 0-8, but CORRUPTION and TAUNT are really easy to work around. Meaning the deck only has 2 reliable killing cards…and they both belong to the fragile minor.
-WILL TO DOMINATE is neat, but if your going to replace it, maybe consider some more offense. Right now, Sauron kind of reminds me of your tweaked Obi-Wan deck; his only weakness is his lack of offense. Now, DARK MACE is good no doubt, but in most duels with Sauron (and I noticed this in my version too) he needs to go through his deck twice to get the win.
I’m actually thinking INVISIBILITY ATTACK should be an A3. You could potentially string 3 of them together with a STING to do 12 unblockable damage. But, you need an exact set of 3, which almost never happens. Even doing 9 damage will be almost never, but it would give the “invisibility no action” effect a little more bite. It’s not like Bilbo is really tough though his defense is very good.
I’ll start by saying that I don’t personally have a problem with the idea of this deck; I used to love playing an old game called “The Third Age” where the final boss battle is against the Eye of Sauron and all your characters run up and hit The Eye with their swords. It was crazy stupid fun.
Anyway, my problem with this deck is the lack of any overall theme. I’d like to see more cards like ONLY DEATH and give Sauron more cards that limit what opponents can do and let that be his theme.
The Mouth of Sauron looks good though; I just wish you could make a reference to “BfME 2” where the Mouth could remove his helmet and shoot a red beam of death as if The Eye was behind the helmet.
Sure, this is just to get it started. I’ve been thinking along the same lines, e.g. coming up with a bread-and-butter CORRUPTION card that either denies cards, or punishes you for stockpiling. Thing is, I think I want to keep his A6-attack-from-anywhere instead of implementing a direct damage card, because the latter would be especially difficult for Frodo to deal with, and Frodo & Sam should be a more feared opponent for this deck than other decks.
I think the Mouth will be the key to his damage output, so I’m considering a card that lets him bring the Mouth back from the dead. Otherwise, it’s too easy to defeat this deck by just focusing on the Mouth.
I don’t know how attached everyone is to this design, but here’s something I’ve been cooking up as an alternative.
The Balrog: 24 HP, Blue Deck
3x Durin’s Bane
A4*/D4: *When attacking, you may discard a card to add 4 to this card’s attack value. When defending, if the attacker is adjacent they receive 2 damage.
3x Wings of Shadow
Move The Balrog up to 7 spaces. Draw a card.
2x Foe Beyond Any
All characters the Balrog can attack receive 4 damage. You may discard a card to draw a card.
2x Roaring Inferno
Look at the top 5 cards of your draw pile. Put 3 in your hand and discard the rest.
2x Flame Sword
A*: The attack value of this card is equal to the number of cards in your discard pile up to 15.
5x Flames
The Balrog does 1 damage to one character he can attack. Playing this card does not count as an action.
4x Ignite
The Balrog recovers 1 hit point. Playing this card does not count as an action.
This is well received because I was looking at the deck last night and realized there isn’t much about it that I’d like to keep, except for the FLAMES card. I don’t like all of the cards you’ve proposed, of course, but there are enough ideas here to come up with something. Should have something soon.
Also, let me know what you think if the Eye of Sauron is worth including.
So, I don’t know why I only just now noticed this: Sinbad and Arthur both have Feint and Regroup cards that are only a boost value of 1 in my copy. Is this the same in your copy or am I just the victim of an unlucky printing error?
1. Cage Match is available on Amazon, and it’s on sale for only $20. Please support the blog and buy it! You get a lot of game for the price.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZBN7JH1
2. Hey yeah, you’re right about Arthur and Sinbad and the Feint and Regroup cards. I don’t know why they’d be different than the others, but they are. For Arthur, maybe they wanted to limit how easily he could BOOST his attacks. For Sinbad, though, I don’t get it at all.
I’m a huge fan of SWED, the Geektopia decks, and The Mandalorian, so this is as good a time as any to join in the fun. I posted some suggested additions on BGG to build on your fantastic initial ideas here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2318656/fan-deck-mandalorian
Would love to know your thoughts!
There are plenty of candidates for a Legends expansion; Treebeard (already has a deck), Beorn, Eagles, a Mumakil, The Watcher in the Water, etc. But, I don’t think I’d be hugely interested in either making or playing those decks (except maybe an Eagle deck that poked fun of their Deus Ex Machina status). Galadriel is probably the best choice for another deck, but like you I don’t think I’d play her that often.
I think we have a nice little mini set going and should just stick with finishing the four we have.
I guess I’m inspired enough to add an Eye of Sauron to the set, which means I want to add a light side character, too. We’ll go with Galadriel & Haldir unless there’s another suggestion.
Here’s where I’d like to go with this set: With the possible exception of Galadriel, these are all the heaviest of hitters: Sauron himself, in 2 forms, the Balrog, Isildur and Elrond should all be Tier 1A decks. However, they would still be beatable by other Tier 1 decks like Aragorn, Gandalf or the Witch King. The challenge is making them very powerful without being overpowered.
If I can I’d like to make a plea to include Robert’s Treebeard deck. I tried it out once and from what I can remember it wasn’t too bad. From a power level perspective, I think Treebeard is as tough as the Cave Troll if not tougher (although I don’t remember if the deck is) plus the deck is pretty much done.
I would think that the Balrog would be the hardest deck to find a figure for. At least with the Ents you use miniature trees and at least get the idea across.
I’ve taken this deck for a spin a few times and it’s always under performed. I mean I don’t think it’s a weak deck, but 21 HP plus a red deck, power defense that drains your offense, and no minors equals a relative fragile deck. He looks like he can have a good game what with 6 killing cards, but I don’t know.
Concerning a “Legends” expansion, I’m pretty sure the deck list is set in stone right? (Sauron, Elrond, Isildur, and this guy?) In which case, my Sauron deck is coming along and they are draft forms for all the other decks so what’s the next step?
You know what I think the big problem is? The Red deck, plain and simple. Change to a Blue or Green and he’s a lot better, right away.
Let me ask this, do you want to see him as a single character deck, or would you rather see him with 2 Goblin archer minors? I like the FLAMES concept but Goblin archers basically act like minors to the Balrog in the movie.
No doubt swapping red for blue/green would solve a lot of his problems.
As for being a single character or not, I know it would definitely be easier and more conventional to just give him a couple of Goblin archers, but maybe the best reason for keeping him as a single character is that it fits LOTRED’s theme of exploring different character sets. You know, the Nazgul are 3 equal characters, the Uruk-hai are a group of 4, and The Great Goblin can have up to 4 minors; having at least one single character in the mix would continue this theme.
I’ve got one. This Elrond, though depicts him from his time in the FOTR. This deck shows his wisdom and magic from Arwen’s escape from the Nazgul. This deck also has increased versatility and derives from Sauron and Smaug abilities.
Major: Elrond- 20hp
Blue+ deck
Minors: Horses of Water- 3hp each
Melee deck
Specials:
3000 years of wisdom x2: Draw 2 cards. Move both Water Horses up to 5 spaces each. Move all other allies that have not moved since the start of Elrond’s turn up to 2 spaces each.
Master Strategist x2: EITHER- Grant any ally an immediate action that does not count against their next turn, OR, Force any enemy to discard absolutely any card set. If you searched their draw pile, reshuffle it.
Mithril Plate x2: Def*, the attacker receives no bonuses from their attack. Elrond takes no damage and is exempt from the next attack or special effect applied to him by any enemy.
Horse Geyser x2: Each Horse of Water deals 3 damage to each enemy adjacent. Fire-based enemies and Nazgul and Sauron take +1 damage from this attack. Then, remove both Horses.
Blast of Water x2: Dmg8*, Play face up to attack from range. Defense from Fire-based enemies and Nazgul and Sauron is against this attack, rounded up. Place 2 Water Horses adjacent to the target, reviving any to full health.
Intense Stare x2: Dmg3*, If this attack does damage, the defender’s next turn is skipped.
Horse Geyser and Intense Stare are just comical names. 3000 years chains into Geyser, so the expansion’s theme is still encouraged. I do like Blast of Water and Horse Geyser, but I feel like they are too similar to Smaug’s abilities, however, they do deal bonus damage to certain characters. Master Strategist allows an ally to take a bonus action, symbolizing Elrond’s military knowledge. It also has increased versatility to deal with Smaug if Bard is not an ally; a problem I have witnessed first-hand. The discard absolutely any card set means any cards that are the same, like Smaug’s wings a Hurricane- all of those cards would be discarded, or just his Weak Spot. Intense Stare is one of those cards you save for a rainy day, and the defender cannot do any thing on their next turn, not even move.
Hi James, thanks for your ideas! Elrond needs a little more offense to his game and needs a bread-and-butter attack that he has 3 copies of, such as BLAST OF WATER being a 3x card instead of 2.
It seems like Elrond should be flanked by a couple of Elves but the Water Horses are at least more original. There are no “fire based” or water-based properties in Epic Duels though, one of the limitations of the game.
Either way, I’m inspired to come up with a full deck for Elrond based on your ideas.
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